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Property Management Brainstorm Podcast

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Episode 57: Messaging Touchpoints and Online Reviews, Featuring Zach Williams of Podium

Bob Preston - Friday, April 30, 2021

Bob Preston, host of Property Management Brainstorm, discusses the topic of relationship management in property management with Zach Williams of the Partnerships and Business Development Team at Podium.  Several of the best practices in relationship management involve connecting with customers through ongoing messaging touchpoints and online reviews.

Podium is a customer messaging platform that can help property management companies achieve these ongoing touchpoints, ultimately bolstering their customer relationship management and loyalty. Zach joins Bob to tell us more about Podium and their messaging platforms.

A time-stamped transcript of the episode is below. 

Topics Covered

[2:15] Zach kicks things off by introducing himself and provide the quick elevator pitch about Podium.

[5:30] Bob asks Zach to explain the difference between relationship management and interaction management for property managers. 

[6:20]  What specifically is meant by "messaging tools"?

[8:08] Managing the messaging tools through the Podium software as a service dashboard.

[9:45] Relationship management is over the entire “customer journey” of stakeholders with your property management company.

[11:48] Getting specific: how Podium handles online chat and review management through text messaging.

[13:50] With texting as the main communication interface, can you expect a higher response rate, say compared to email or phone messages?

[17:11] Does it take additional staffing to handle the Podium platform? (ie, dedicated personnel to online chat and reviews).

[18:45] Making the cultural shift to digital communications.

[21:37] Podium's pricing and the partnership program discount for members of NARPM (National Association of Residential Property Managers).

[24:55] Dave shares a personal story about how he came up with the idea for Certificate Manager.

Connect to Podium

Podium Discount for NARPM Members

Connect with Bob Preston
San Diego Property Manager 

This episode is always available for listening, sharing, or download at Property Management Brainstorm. Subscribe to Property Management Brainstorm on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Stitcher, Spotify,  TunedIn,  iHeart Radio and YouTube.

Bob Preston:                     01:06                    Hey y'all and welcome brainstormers to the Property Management Brainstorm show. I'm Bob Preston, your host broadcasting from our studio at North County Property Group in Del Mar, California. If you're new here, please subscribe. So, you have ongoing access to all our great episodes. And if you like what you hear, please pay it forward with a positive review. I've had two speaking opportunities recently about the topic of best practices in relationship management. This was at two different NARPM conferences last week at the NARPM broker-owner conference. And then back in March at the Cal NARPM conference, several of those best practices involved connecting with customers through ongoing messaging touchpoints and online reviews. Podium is a customer messaging platform that can help property management companies and landlords achieve these ongoing touch points, ultimately bolstering their customer relationship management and loyalty. I have with me today on the show, Zach Williams, from the partnerships and business development team at Podium to tell us more about this, Zach, welcome to property management brainstorm.

Zach Williams:                  02:13                    Thanks Bob. Appreciate you having me on today.

Bob Preston:                     02:16                    It's exciting that you're here. I've been looking forward to this and hearing more about Podium. I think it's always a good place to kind of kick things off by introducing yourself and maybe just give us the quick elevator pitch about Podium.

Zach Williams:                  02:26                    Yeah, absolutely. My name is Zach. I manage our partnerships and some of our business development relationships here at Podium, specifically as it relates to the property management industry. So, Podium services, a number of industries, not just property management, although property management is our fastest growing right now. So really the kind of the quick pitch on Podium is we help make it very easy for property management companies to get connected with their customers. It could be an investor; it could be actual tenants that they're trying to get in contact and really manage their communication in a very seamless way. Via text message. Text message is kind of the, the wave of the future is how consumers prefer to interact. And so, we're now helping local businesses interact in the way that consumers prefer to interact, which is text.

Bob Preston:                     03:15                    You know, that was one of my questions. We, you mentioned you don't just serve property managers. I do interview a lot of people who have solutions specifically for property management companies. It's not the case with Podium, but it sounds like you do tackle certain vertical markets. What are some of those other industries or vertical markets where you might have a play?

Zach Williams:                  03:31                    Great question. So, we got started in the automotive industry and that's still our largest, um, really fun fact about the automotive industry is Podium now services one out of every three car dealerships in North America. Wow. So that shows the type of reach that we have within that industry. We've been in that industry for six or seven years now and have kind of expanded into, into other industries that are kind of have similar trends to the automotive industry. So just B to C local businesses in general, I think are typically a really good play for Podium. So, we serve as healthcare companies, we service retail stores like jewelry and furniture stores, home service businesses, aside for property management, like HVAC and plumbing companies. Yeah. Really any business along those lines is typically a pretty good play for Podium. So, we have 65,000 customers currently across those five or six industries that I mentioned. And like I said, property management is probably our fastest growing right now, which is

Bob Preston:                     04:29                    No kidding. Yeah. It seems like a B2C is kind of the primary target. And I noticed on your website, doctors, healthcare, you know, is one of them maybe even dental offices, there's sort of a target market there too for communicating with their clients or patients, I guess in that case.

Zach Williams:                  04:45                    Yeah. If you think about as a patient, right, you need to schedule an appointment and being able to do that via text is very convenient as opposed to having to call the office and maybe you have to leave a voicemail or email, right. We're just making it very seamless for consumers like you and me everyday people to connect with these local businesses at the end of the day,

Bob Preston:                     05:05                    Mentioned in the kickoff to the show that I recently gave a presentation at the Narcan broker-owner conference and also account AARP I'm about relationship management and why it's important and why it's kind of an initiative that you should have in your company. And it talked about 10 best practices and three of them kind of were pertaining to the continuum of interaction and communication. So, I noticed on your website, and I think I watched a demo where you guys refer to a deck is actually interactive management. What's the difference? I mean, we're talking about the same thing here. How would you distinguish between the two?

Zach Williams:                  05:38                    Yeah, I think so to a certain degree, I think a good way to think about it is interaction management ultimately helps you with your relationship management, right? So, interaction management, it's really just managing all of the interactions that you as a business would have with your customers or maybe your investors or property owners, right? Those relationships are very critical in order to build lasting relationships with them. It's important that you cater how you interact with them, the way that they prefer to interact with you, which what we've seen has been text message for the most part. So that's where interaction management kind of comes into play is if you're able to interact effectively with these people, that's just going to enhance overall your ability to build rapport, lasting relationships.

Bob Preston:                     06:21                    Yeah. And in your introduction of yourself and Podium, you mentioned the messaging tools. I mean, you're really talking about messaging like as in text messaging, right?

Zach Williams:                  06:28                    Correct. Yeah. Text messaging. Exactly.

Bob Preston:                     06:31                    You say messaging tools, what does that mean? Is it different ways of communicating through texts for different purposes?

Zach Williams:                  06:38                    Exactly. Yeah. I think it's a question we get a lot, right? Like if we're helping businesses with text messaging, what does that mean? Right. But we help them understand that there's a lot of different ways that a business would interact with their customers via text, right? Maybe it's driving leads via text, right. Where maybe it's an investor, that's looking to work with a property management company. They can reach out to you via text, and you have the ability to harness those conversations in an inbound fashion via text message, right? Maybe it's an outbound component of texts and being able to follow up with, you know, those investors or particular tenants or something along those lines. Another product we've rolled out within the last couple of months has been a payments tool, which actually allows a company, a local business to accept payment, via text message as well, where you solicit a text to your customer and say, you owe me a thousand dollars.

Zach Williams:                  07:29                    For example, they can fulfill that in a secure method, um, all via texts. So, you know, it really gets pretty interesting in terms of the different types of texting interactions that a business can do through Podium. It can be Google reviews, right? Soliciting a Google review to your customer saying, Hey, leave me a review on my business. Maybe it's a survey question aside from reviews. That's not public facing, but just for internal purposes, right? Really the sky's the limit when it comes to the different conversations that can be happy at texts and us at Podium, we're trying to be very innovative and we're rolling out new products all the time that really helped these businesses interact via text a number of different ways.

Bob Preston:                     08:06                    That's amazing. So, I'm assuming it's software as a service where you would either log in online or maybe there's an app for your phone,

Zach Williams:                  08:15                    Correct? Yep, exactly. It's just a dashboard. So, it's a, it's a web-based application. So, you'd have it on your mobile phone, just like you could on your desktop device. Right. So similar to a Facebook you log in and you can manage your Facebook conversations, whether it's on your mobile or your desktop, same applies with Podium. And yes, it is software as a service, just a subscription model where you pay for a license of Podium and you have an unlimited number of messages, unlimited number of users. There's a number of staff members that you want to be able to access these conversations through Podium. It is how we structure it.

Bob Preston:                     08:49                    Now I've heard you use the term products or there's products for this products for that. When you have a subscription with Podium, do you get the whole enchilada, if you will, or do you create your own solution based on a modular approach?

Zach Williams:                  09:04                    The question it's kind of an all a cart model, to be honest, you, we have a number of different products and a lot of the products come with just our core Podium offering, but we have some add on products as well. So, what we've seen with a lot of companies who are just in the initial stages of starting to text their customers and starting to do that as a business, they'll come on board with Podium and one of our lower packages and just kind of get a taste of what Podium is all about. If they want to upgrade later to some of our add on products, then they'll have the ability to do that and make that coterminous with their previous agreement as well. So that's typically what we see.

Bob Preston:                     09:41                    One of the concepts that I really liked, I think it was in your online demo was that you talked about the customer journey. This is another point not, not to keep referencing this relationship management presentation I did, but there was a lot of overlap here, right? When I started my session, I was saying, look, relationship management is about all these different stakeholders you might interact with on a daily basis. It could be your tenants. It could be your customers, your property owners, your, your vendors. It could be your partnerships, whatever they are and their entire journey through that relationship over the life cycle of being involved with your company as a stakeholder, right? And you guys use that same terminology, which I thought was really cool. Is that how you view it in terms of your solutions and what does Podium mean by that customer journey? I guess

Zach Williams:                  10:23                    I would say Bob, we look at it the exact same way that you're describing, right? Maybe step one in the customer journey is an investor, right? That's looking to work with a property management company. So, they're in the very initial stages of, of working with you, right? Maybe another step in the customer journey would be, you're already working with them and they're your customer, right? You need to be able to interact with them on a consistent basis, to your point, maybe partnerships that you have or vendors that you work with, they're all different in terms of the customer journey or where they fall in line with the stage of them working within your organization or your property management company. Right? So, Podium provides these communication tools for every step of the customer journey. If it's somebody in the initial stages is looking for a property management company to work with Podium will allow you to more effectively communicate with that person. If they're a customer of yours, you've worked with them for five years, Podium will enhance your ability to communicate with them on a consistent basis and make it more seamless for you and the customer to be able to interact with them and, and so on and so forth. So yeah, I think we think about that in a pretty similar fashion.

Bob Preston:                     11:30                    Absolutely. I, I like that. And I like, you know, making communications easier because I meet a lot of property managers. I'm very involved in ARPA and Calmar Palm and, uh, meet a lot of property management companies. And I always advocate look, the minute somebody lands on your webpage, you're creating a relationship. So, so let's get specific, right? You guys have online chat solutions. That's one of your areas, how does work? That that could be the first place you start communicating because if a customer lands on your website and they can't get ahold of you easily, or can't start that dialogue easily, then what does that make them think about your company? Well, you guys have a solution for that. Tell us,

Zach Williams:                  12:05                    We do. We do have a solution for that. And on the flip side, Bob, similarly to what you're describing, if the property management company has a hard time getting in contact with the person that reached out to them, because that's oftentimes, you know, a barrier as well, then, you know, there's, there's no use in having the conversation, right? It's, it's pointless at that point as well. So, Podium provides a tool that allows people to easily interact with the property management company, right from their website. And it’s all a text. So, they basically enter their name, their cell phone number and their inquiry, maybe it's Hey, looking for a property management company to manage my properties, right. That message is sent directly to the property management company, through Podium, as a, as a texting conversation. And everyone will be notified or whoever they want to receive notifications on those initial inquiries would be notified to say, Hey, somebody was on your site and is asking you questions, right? And then the company has the ability to follow up with them via text. They can shoot them a text; they'll think and pick up the phone and give them a call as well. The fact that they have then the mobile number of that initial inquiry is a game changer because that's how they're going to most effectively get in contact with that person. That's asking a question

Bob Preston:                     13:15                    It's a little different, it's not really chatting online. Then like you might see in a website, it's like, Hey, here, I'm here. I have some questions. Here's my mobile phone. And then it goes off to a direct texting,

Zach Williams:                  13:24                    Correct? Yeah. And they could even close that browser. They're not going to continue to continue the dialogue on that particular browser. It shifts right to their mobile phone where they can pick up the conversation again, in a way that's convenient for that end user, which is probably text message for the most part.

Bob Preston:                     13:39                    Why is text messaging so much more effective than some of these other methods, right? Do you, you mentioned that a minute ago that Hey, get in touch with these people quickly, like emails, not synchronous, right? It's a sync maybe even calling and leaving a message by voice might be asynchronous. So, what about texting? Why is that more effective?

Zach Williams:                  13:57                    One of the interesting stats balm that I think people would be interested in is that 95% of text messages are read within the first three minutes. Wow. So that's why, right. If you think about your personal email inbox, man, I got thousands of unread emails in my personal email that I'm not going to be able to get you right. But very seldom is there a day where I miss a text message that I received that day, right? For the most part, people are staying on top of those. And so, if you, as a business can capitalize on that and text those people directly, then it's going to be a game changer in terms, in terms of your ability to interact with

Bob Preston:                     14:32                    What about reviews? Because I know this is another area where you guys do a big piece of your business is helping people generate positive reviews. Why are online reviews so important in today's market, regardless of your industry?

Zach Williams:                  14:43                    Regardless of your industry, they are very important. And another interesting stat that we talk about a lot is that 93 of customers consult online reviews before making a purchase decision. So that shows right there, the impact that reviews can have for you and your business. A lot of the industries that we work in at Podium are referral driven industries, or they've been in the past, they consider a referral driven industry, maybe a dentist, or maybe even a property management company or a realtor or insurance agency. Right. But these online reviews serve as that referral or that recommendation by hundreds, if not thousands of people, if you have those reviews on your Google page. So, it's going to be a game changer in terms of helping people feel more comfortable to work with you, as well as helping you show up on in your local areas, Google search, right? People are constantly searching for businesses online and having that presence on your Google page, where you have hundreds, if not thousands of Google reviews, which is, which is Podium’s goal, then you'll really be able to show up number one. And that's going to generate a lot more traffic to your website as well, where then you can use some of these texting tools to your advantage also.

Bob Preston:                     15:53                    Okay. So, I'm assuming the way it works with you guys then as you would either click a link or maybe it would be sent directly, but it's basically an invitation. Hey, would you, would you give us a review? You know, we just had this great experience together. Will you give us your feedback, whatever, and it's sent by text.

Zach Williams:                  16:09                    Exactly. Yep. Done. Right. The text, we oftentimes consult the companies that we work with to actually ask their customer, right? Like, Hey, appreciate your business. If you wouldn't mind, I'm going to shoot you a quick text. If you could leave us a Google review and more often than not, they're going to be willing to do that, especially if you ask them to do it. And then the second part to that is making it very easy for them to actually leave a Google review, right? If they have to go onto Google and log into their Google page, that could create some complexity and probably not as high of a conversion rate in terms of who's actually going to go leave a review for you as a business. And so, we've created a very simple method that allows us to send a text right to their customer that takes them right to the Google page to leave a review. So very seamless, very simple takes two clicks is all, and they can leave that review in a matter of 10, 15 seconds.

Bob Preston:                     16:58                    No kidding. Okay. That's really good because you're right. A lot of the platforms get you kind of going in the direction, but once you get to Google, if you're not logged in, you have to log in and then you have to do this. You have to do that, and it's can sometimes be a little bit more cumbersome. What about staffing for this is some of this stuff automated, for example, are there drip campaigns for reviews or, um, is there a chat bot and the chat aspect, or does it require somebody kind of behind the curtain to monitor this 24 seven

Zach Williams:                  17:28                    Certain degree? Yes and no. So, in regard to the chat, for example, we have a robust chat, which we call web chat pro, which has some automations, right? Allows you to maybe do a little bit more pre-qualifying to the people that are on your website. So that at least helps the staff be reassured that the leads that are coming in are very qualified. And in regard to the reviews, there are some automations that can be done there as well, depending on point-of-sale system they're using and things of that nature. But for the most part, we actually encourage our customers to staff it full-time and have people interacting as real people, texting that's really where they're going to see the best value and the best results. And so, Podium is not a managed service by any means, right? We don't just, we don't give them the software and man them with all the support necessary to answer all these questions, we give them the software and allow the staff to really shine and stand out from their competitors by utilizing these tools, to be very responsive and beat their competition in terms of service.

Zach Williams:                  18:32                    So that's really where, what it comes down to. Yeah.

Bob Preston:                     18:35                    It occurs to me that to really get one of your customers or one of your businesses, that's using the platform to be completely effective with this, they have to kind of buy into this digital transformation philosophy. Do you see that as kind of like all hands-on deck? Okay. We've, we're adopting Podium, everybody's got to understand this. Everybody's got to be willing to participate and it almost becomes a cultural shift. At least that's how it seems in my mind. Do you hear that? Or do you see that with some of your,

Zach Williams:                  19:01                    I do. Yeah, I would. I would agree with that for sure. You know, it is definitely a shift in what they've done in the past and really making a change for the better in terms of how they're communicating with their customers. I think a lot of the businesses that we work with are very innovative, right? They see that texting is something that maybe they're behind the eight ball on and that's how their customers want to interact. That's other tenants prefer to interact just so much easier for everybody, if they can implement a texting strategy and be able to communicate in that way. So, I think a lot of the companies that we interact with understand that coming in and they're willing to make some changes and Podium our customer success team, as we call it is very handholding throughout the process. And we can come in and help everybody be trained, understand how to best use Podium and an effective manner and implemented in a seamless way. We've done it for 65,000 businesses now. So, if there's ever any hesitancies around that Podiums been there done that. We felt businesses make the change before, but there definitely has to be some level of buy-in. And I'll tell you this, Bob, for those businesses that are bought into Podium and want to make those types of changes within their organization, it's a game changer forum in a lot of different ways.

Bob Preston:                     20:14                    You have people that handhold them through that process, that implementation process, and maybe getting user adoption. Is that the proper phrase for it within an organization?

Zach Williams:                  20:24                    Yeah, I would say so for sure, we have a implementation team that helps implement Podium and provide strategy and onboarding techniques as to how they can best utilize the software. One thing as well, that we do very well. Podium is a big company. Now we have over a thousand employees. And so that allows us to give these customers the attention that they need from a customer service standpoint, right. And giving them a full-time representative. It allows them to allow the company to follow up with that representative, their specific questions around their account or how they can best maximize the case, their usage within Podium and things of that nature. So, we're, we're not, uh, we don't sell you and then kind of throw you to the wolves by any stretch of the imagination, but you'll always have somebody designated to your business to help you be successful with the software.

Bob Preston:                     21:15                    That's terrific. I mean, I think that's one of the biggest issues sometimes when you're adopting something new management implements that hopes it sticks, but you're kind of, you know, hope and a prayer that, okay, I hope people really adopt this and it's, it, it almost requires somebody to make sure the focus is maintained and that people are actually, I guess, making that cultural adaptation to embrace this new technology and making it a part of their business. What about pricing? How are you mentioned that it's sort of a modular or customized approach to the solutions you guys offer? How do you price the product?

Zach Williams:                  21:45                    Yeah. We price them based on different bundles. Right? So, if you're a business that just wants to utilize some of our messaging capabilities, then we have kind of a core offering where you can utilize our abilities to do text messaging in an outbound and inbound fashion. Right. If you want our web chat tool on your website, that's an add on product to that core messaging capability. Right? So, and then in addition to that, if you want some other survey capabilities, be able to survey your customers via text, all those kinds of things, then that's an add on product as well. So, we have three or four different packages. And to kind of give you an idea, um, typically somewhere between 300 and $600 per month is where Podium will land. We have a lot of different options in terms of pricing packages and things of that nature.

Zach Williams:                  22:32                    But for the most part, that's typically where Podium we'll land for a business and we can really make it work for a business of any size. We have some of the smallest property management companies in the country working with us. We have some of the largest as well. And similarly, to some of the other industries as well, right. We have very small car dealerships. We have very big car dealerships that utilize us and so on and so forth. So, we're pretty confident in our ability to put something together for your business. If you want to start texting as a business and be more communicative in that way, or maybe it's just driving online reviews, that's a focus for you. And you want to double down on that for the time being, then we can come up with something that works for you in that way as well. So that's how it works.

Bob Preston:                     23:15                    Okay. And if they were to go to your website, are there bout lines of which package gives you what features and how much that might be per month? I know a lot of software companies do that, right? There's sort of the starter kit, or I'm paraphrasing here. I don't know what you call these different packages, but the starter kit, the, you know, then maybe there's the bronze and silver or the gold, and then there's the pro or whatever guys break it out, kind of like that.

Zach Williams:                  23:36                    Absolutely. Yeah. And we found it to be most effective. If somebody that's interested in our software, if we're able to kind of walk them through a live demo of our software, right. So, we can get them on the phone with one of our reps and do a screen share and help them understand how other businesses like them have utilized Podium showcase some of the different products that they could potentially be utilizing and really come up with the best fit for them. And that's typically the best catered approach rather than just seeing kind of what's on the site and everything like that. But there is information there as well for people to get more information.

Bob Preston:                     24:10                    Very cool. And as a NARPM member, I understand that you can get it.

Zach Williams:                  24:15                    You can, yep. NARPM members get 10% off any level of Podium. So, we have those different levels that I described. And if you are a NARPM member, you have the ability to get that 10% off, which is the highest in the property management industry. We're obviously very aware of the value that NARPM brings to the table. So, our partnership with them really sets these property management companies up for success. So, if you reach out to Podium, tell them you're a NARPM member to be able to get that 10% off as part of the partner.

Bob Preston:                     24:43                    Okay. NARPM members, you heard that, uh, there's no excuses to not having a good relationship management program now in place because Podium solves a lot of those issues that many of us talked about when I was hosting my session, Zach, I, I'm kind of a storyteller when I meet somebody new, a new customer, maybe new vendor just to break the ice and you know, it's not obnoxious or anything. I kind of like to tell a story usually about myself. And I have several arrows in my quiver that I pull out, depending upon the situation. What do you have for us today? Could you share a story with our audience? Just so they get to know Zach a little bit and maybe more about you and your life.

Zach Williams:                  25:16                    Yeah, sure thing. I'd be happy to kind of share open up the curtain a little bit and reveal my life a little bit. So, I live in, in Salt Lake City. That's where Podium is, is headquartered. We have offices, um, actually all over the world now. Um, but that's where we're headquartered. I've been in Utah for some time, but grew up actually in Phoenix, Arizona. And I moved up to Utah when I was in high school, which can be a difficult transition, I think, for any teenage kid, right. To move into a different state, different culture, um, when you're in high school. And that was really kind of an earth-shattering experience for me and really allowed me to see who I was. I had to kind of cut out of my comfort zone, make new friends stand up for myself to a certain degree and kind of figure out what I wanted at an early age, given that this was when I was, you know, 15, 16 years old in high school.

Zach Williams:                  26:09                    So I think as I kind of look back on my life, I think that was a very instrumental time in my life that has really set me up for success, happened to go through something like that. That can be difficult to go through. I think, you know, people go through more difficult things than nap for sure, but its asset by even gone through more challenging things in that. But I think that's something that has really just set me up for success, happened to get out of your comfort zone. And I try to kind of live by that, to this day, seek opportunities to get out of your comfort zone a little bit. I think that'll cause you to stretch and grow and just sets you up to be a better person down the road. So that's a little bit, a little bit about my life and a little bit about what I've learned. So

Bob Preston:                     26:52                    That's a very cool story, kind of a transformative experience at a young age. You probably hated it at the time. You're probably like this sucks. You know, I don't like this. I want to go back to Arizona, but looking back on it, you're probably wow. I learned a lot of really great life lessons at an early age,

Zach Williams:                  27:08                    For sure. Yeah. And you know, it's easy to be mad at your parents or your family going through something like that. Right. You pull me away from my friends or this or that. Right. But you know, looking back, it definitely was the best thing for me and allowed me to, to be successful. Obviously, I wouldn't be here in Salt Lake City now at Podium and have the opportunities that I've had now had none of that happened. So, I met my wife as well. Who's from Utah. So, it, it all worked out. Everything works out. As long as you just try to do your best and move forward. Sometimes that's all.

Bob Preston:                     27:38                    There you go, Zach, when you meet your wife, you know, where you ended up at a can't be all that bad. Okay. Thanks. That was really, really cool. Really cool story. And I can't. Thank you enough. What else do you have wrapping up here? And if someone wanted to learn more about Podium, how would they go about that?

Zach Williams:                  27:52                    Absolutely. I would say the best way to learn about coding would go directly to our website,, You can request a demo there on the site. You can also get some more information actually on the Narcan website, we're listed on the Narcan website as well. So that kind of showcases how we work specifically in this industry. Whereas Podium, our website is a little bit more broad since we service a number of different industries. So, I think either one of those methods is going to be the best way for somebody to get more information on Podium schedule. One of those in-depth one-on-one demos that I described. It's, you know, 100% no obligation, right? Just get on the phone with one of our reps, look at our products and see if it's a good fit for you. If not, then I think you'll learn something about your business one way or the other.

Zach Williams:                  28:37                    We try to at least give some people, some good takeaways to implement within their business right away, right? Like maybe there's three tips or tricks that they can do to get more reviews within their business without using Podium. Right? So, we try to beat the thought leaders in that way and just provide them with some good consultative conversations. And if they want to use Podium great. If not, then they'll know where to find this down the road. And, and again, like I said, don't forget to mention that you are a member of NARPM, and we'll be sure to honor that discount for you as well.

Bob Preston:                     29:07                    Well, Zack, thank you so much. This has been a great episode and we appreciate you taking the time today to be on the show. Appreciate it. As we wrap up today, I'd like to make another quick plug to our listeners to please click on subscribe and give us a like YouTube, Zack, you got to come back and give us a, like, once this goes live, I always ask my guests to do that and please pay it forward with the positive review. And that helps encourage more great guests like Zach to come on the show. And so, you get more great content and that concludes today's episode. Thank you for joining the property management brainstorm show. Until next time we will be in the field, working hard, our clients to maximize their property value and income and maintain top tenant relations. And we'll catch you next time.

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