Property Management Blog

Why to Hire a NARPM Member

Bob Preston - Thursday, February 6, 2020
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The following blog post is a time-stamped, full transcript of Bob Preston’s interview of Eric Wetherington, the 2019 National President for National Association of Residential Property Managers. The episode was recorded January 23, 2020 and published on the Property Management Brainstorm Podcast. The audio version of this podcast can be found at this link of the North County Property Group website, as Episode 30- All About NARPM: Property Management Brainstorm Show. 

Bob Preston:                      01:05                     What's going on Brainstormers? Before we get started today, I'd like to offer you a copy of my new eBook called Best Practices for Renting Your Home. It's a quick read and offers all of my tips from being in the property management business for over 20 years. Navigating the pitfalls and safety nets that come with being a landlord. This eBook has recently been published and is offered as a free download on the North County Property Group website. Find it at this web link and download it for free. that's

Bob Preston:                      01:48                     Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Property Management Brainstorm show. I'm Bob Preston, your host, broadcasting from our studio at North County Property Group in Del Mar, California. If you're new here, please subscribe so you have ongoing access to all of our great episodes and if you like what you hear, please pay it forward by leaving a positive review. One thing all owners of rental properties want to make sure of is hiring someone well qualified if they decide to have their property professionally managed by a property management company to assure the property management company is operating within a clear set of standards. It's also important to know if they are a member of the National Association of Residential Property Managers or NARPM for short. I have with me today as a guest on the show, Eric Wetherington 2019 National President to tell us about why NARPM is important and why property owners should hire a NARPM member. Eric, welcome to the show today. 

Eric Wetherington:         02:51                     Bob, thanks for having me. I really look forward to talking to you. 

Bob Preston:                      02:53                     Oh yeah, absolutely. And Eric, perhaps the place to start is simply telling us about yourself, your background and property management. I know it's extensive and what attracted you to take a leadership role in NARPM?

Eric Wetherington:         03:04                     Sure. Bob. Well, I'm here in Charleston, South Carolina. We've lived here in Charleston area for over 12 years now and kind of got into the property management space. I'd been in and around real estate and financial services for many, many years. And it's just started up a lot of companies, a lot of title insurance companies and partnerships and joint ventures and things. And so, I was asked to start a property management company back in late 2008 for a large real estate firm here in the Charleston market. Even though I didn't have any property management experience at the time, I had a broker's license and I know how to start companies. And so that was my entry into property management. And being that I didn't really know anything about property management. I said there's got to be something out there, some group of property managers, some organization out there that could help me learn more about this business. And so, I spent several months searching and looking and, and trying to find. And finally, sometime around March of 2009 I stumbled across NARPM and that's, that's when I got my first introduction into NARPM and I got involved.

Bob Preston:                      04:12                     And the rest is history. So, you've sort of got involved, you gradually took on different roles I guess, you know, um, I'm starting to be offered kind of those types of opportunities now too. So, you know, it's kind of kinda fun, right, to contribute to the variety. We'll hit on that later cause I think one of my questions to you later in the episode is going to be, Hey, what opportunities are there? Okay. So, we're recording in mid-January of 2020 and I think you just turned over the reins of the president role to somebody else. Kelly Tollefson, I believe as of January 1st is that correct?

Eric Wetherington:         04:44                     That's correct. Our president role runs from January to December 31 so on January 1st I was very glad to turn the reigns over of presidency to Kelly Tollefson. Kelly's from the Spokane, Washington area and she's going to be a great leader for NARPM in 2020 I'm really excited about what she brings to the table and what the Narcan leadership is going to do for its members in 2020.

Bob Preston:                      05:10                     Well I think this is perfect timing because it allows us to get your perspective of what it was like, you know, being in your role and what, what was perhaps achieved and things like that. So, tell us what was it like? How was it serving as president of NARPM in 2019?

Eric Wetherington:         05:24                     Well, it was great to get around the country. I'd have to travel all over the country and talk to property managers and talk to people who are doing this business each and every day and hear about their pain points and hear about their successes. And that was really, it was a great experience, a great opportunity to get to meet people, get to know more people. And so, I really, I enjoyed it and it was definitely a time well spent.

Bob Preston:                      05:46                     Did you learn a lot, I mean I know you've been in the business for years, but did you learn a lot from some of the people you met in your travels?

Eric Wetherington:         05:53                     You know, I actually started a Google sheet when I stepped into my role as a president elect. I started a Google sheet of ideas because I knew that for the next couple of years there would be no time for me to go take ideas and go back in my business and implement them. So, as I, as I came across ideas, I would just throw them into this Google sheet. And so now that's one of my tasks for this quarter of this year is to look back through that sheet and look at some of those ideas and figure out which ones I need to implement in my business. So yeah, a lot of ideas on that sheet and I got to look at it now and figure out what I can do.

Bob Preston:                      06:24                     That is so cool. I do the same thing. I call those nuggets. Like I'll hear something and sometimes it's like not even related to property management, but I'll hear something that just pops this idea into my mind even on a TV show or on some podcast or something and I write it down on a sheet and then I sort of save them up until I have a bulk of them and then I knock them down. Well, okay. And do you have any official duties for 2020?

Eric Wetherington:         06:46                     So I'm the immediate past president so I'm still on the board for one more year. And in that capacity, I serve as the chair of the nominating committee. So, we'll be nominating committee will be coming together and we'll be looking at candidates and vetting candidates for upcoming board positions. So that's what I've got for this year.

Bob Preston:                      07:05                     All right, so you get to, you get a hand in picking the next president elect, I guess. Uh, also. Okay. So, let's go back to square one a little bit and let's talk about NARPM itself. That's what this episode is about, all about NARPM and why it's important for property owner to look to rent their home by hiring a NARPM manager. Can you just tell us a little bit about NARPM and why it's important for somebody who's considering to rent their home to hire an NARPM manager?

Eric Wetherington:         07:31                     Well, the thing that I found, and again, you know, traveling and dealing with property management all over the country and in here in our market certainly as well as the people who are NARPM members have certain standards in their business. They certainly are exposed to a lot of education, a lot of training, a lot of learning. And most cases they go back to their business and they implement those standards of practice in their business. And so I really feel strongly that property investors benefit when they use a NARPM member because you know, they get the value of knowing that that company that they're working with is going to be managing their property and looking over their asset up to a level that is higher than the average person or I average property manager or average real estate agent who can manage properties but doesn't know enough about NARPM is doing. I think back a few years ago, this happens over years ago, Bob and our company, we had an owner, she was from New Jersey and she called us up one day and she says, I want a key to my property and it's my property. I own it and I want to keep, and we were like, man, there's a tenant in place, the tenant has a key and we have a key and nobody else gets a key. Well it's my property. You don't understand. I own it. I want a key. I demand that I have a key if you won't give me a key, you know, blah, blah blah. And so, we said, no reputable property management in the Charleston market will give you a key to your rental property. Well, she is, you know, flood all up in a roar and she was going to fire us and call another property manager. So, we said, well ma'am, that's, that's your choice. You know, just let us know what you want to do. So about 30 minutes later she called us back. She goes, you're right. No other property management company I called would give me a key to my rental property. So, I'm staying with you.

Bob Preston:                      09:17                     Yeah, yeah. That's a great story. I, yeah, I mean, NARPM expects its members to uphold a certain set of standards, right? I mean, there's actually codes of ethics and standards that are in place to become a NARPM member. How about education? Does NARPM require education from its members?

Eric Wetherington:         09:33                     So we don't require education other than ethics training on a regular basis, but there are a lot of educational opportunities that are available, whether it's attending local chapter meetings or going to the national convention or going to the broker owner conference or going to the legislative conference. There's a lot of opportunities. Their state chapter meetings that, you know, the States put on, there's online courses that they can take. So, there's a lot of opportunities for NARPM members to be involved in training and education so that they can improve themselves and ultimately improve their property management business and the service that they provide to those clients.

Bob Preston:                      10:12                     That's a great segue because I'm a NARPM member, as you know, and I think one of the biggest benefits to me has been attending some of these sessions, you know, either at the national conventions or locally here in San Diego and just networking and getting these ideas and get it grabbing some of those nuggets. Right? So I sit there and take notes at the conventions and you know, some of it I already know, some of it I, I, you know, I don't need to learn, but every now and then there'll be this. Oh wow, okay. And if I can come away from those kinds of meetings with maybe 10 of these nuggets, as I call them, you know, that's pretty cool, right? Because you bring back new ideas to stimulate the rest of your company. So, uh, you sort of rattle a bunch of stuff off in terms of all these different meetings and different conventions. Can you tell us more thoroughly about the different meetings, different conventions that are available through NARPM?

Eric Wetherington:         11:00                     So from a national perspective, we put on three meetings, three big meetings every year. Our national convention is in October of every year and that sort of anybody who's a NARPM member can come together and meet vendors. We have a big trade show as a part of that. They can sit and listen to other property managers teaching on various topics and other outside professionals so that they can become better, not only in business and not only in property management, but better leaders, better in HR, better in accounting, you know, it really, we try to cover a lot of different topics that will help them in running the business as a whole. In addition to providing, of course a lot of information about property management, specifically new ideas, new things that are coming up. There's a lot of time for that at our national convention. Our broker owner meeting happens in the first part of the year each year and this year in April we'll be at the Bay Resort in Oahu on the North Shore and that is a great opportunity for brokers and owners or key decision makers in the company to come together so that they know that everybody's sitting around that table is that a broker or a decision owner level and they can talk about all kinds of things and they can talk about, you know, you can get more, more in depth about those key management and ownership things about your business. And we really try to focus the education and training there on higher level, much higher-level things. Then we might add a typical national convention, a breakout session. So, a lot of great tools there. This year we have Damon John is our keynote speaker coming and he's going to do a great job, I think talking about entrepreneurship and his story and how he started out from the ground up as a young kid living in the projects to build the empire that he has today. And then our third event is in May of every year and that's our legislative conference where we come together in Washington DC. There's some education and learning as a part of that. And then the key part of that is we go out to Capitol Hill and go meet with our congressmen and senators. NARPM leadership meets with HUD and we really talk about the, uh, the legislative issues of the day that are impacting property management nationally.

Bob Preston:                      13:11                     Wow. That's really cool. I've never been to the legislative, uh, meeting, but I have of course been to national and the broker owner and I'm planning, I was in the fall, I was at the national convention. I plan to be there for a broker owner this year in the national, I want to come back to the legislative influence here in a minute now because there are also local and state chapters correct. Of NARPM them and they have their own events. I don't expect you to be well versed in each, but I just kind of wanted to acknowledge that that Cal NARPM has its own convention right each year. And then we have local meetings as well, which are also kind of those opportunities you mentioned previously for the networking.

Eric Wetherington:         13:48                     And those local meetings are really important at the local and the state level because then you can get more in depth into what's going on in California. Like for example Cal NARPM, I've been at their conference for the last two years, great event. They do a great job organizing that and putting that together and really bringing value to folks who are in California who are managing properties. And then when you come down to the local level and when you can start to have relationships with other property managers in your community, you know, I've heard some people say, well, why would I want to have a relationship with my competitor who's across the street? We're in competition, he's the bad guy. And I'm like, no, not at all. I really firmly believe that a rising tide lifts all boats and, if there's that standard of property management services that is taking place in your market, that's only going to benefit everybody and ultimately it's going to benefit the consumer, the client. It's going to benefit the tenant and the bottom line, like the story that I shared about the owner from New Jersey, it ultimately benefits you too. So, it's important to come together in a local level and make relationships with these other people in your market that are doing property management. You learn a lot, you grow a lot, and you make some great friends along the way.

Bob Preston:                      15:03                     Terrific. Hey, I am personally in the candidacy stage for an RMP and I know that you have a good handle on what all the different NARPM certifications are that members can strive to achieve. Could you review those quickly and why those might be interesting to look for?

Eric Wetherington:         15:21                     Sure. I'll talk about the top three and there are several others than these three, but let's talk about the RMP. As you talk about, it's kind of the first level for a licensee and that's the residential management professional and basically there's a list of things you have to do. Attending classes, attending convention, being involved in your local chapter, being involved in a convention or on a national committee. There's a lot of different things you can do to get points and building towards that RMP designation. And really what it does is it just shows that you're somebody who's committed to the business of property management and somebody who is involved in various aspects of it and has taken those learning opportunities of involvement and applying those things into your practice. So, I really do think that the designation is good for making someone stand out in a crowd among other property managers. So, you have the residential management professional. Then above that is the master property manager, the NPM designation. And again, that just goes to another level, another level of education and training and dedication to this industry that makes those individuals who have that NPM designation really stand out above the pack. And then the other one I want to talk about the other designation as a company designation. It's a certified residential management company or CRMC designation. So, in order for a company to be a CRMC, they have to first of all have an MPM or a master property manager on their staff. And then they go through a very rigorous review. And NARPM national has people that do this, that come out and actually look at all of the different things in the company, look at all your policies and procedures. They actually come and do an onsite review of your company, interview your team members, make sure that all the paperwork lines up and matches with the philosophy and what's really going on. And then you can earn the CRMC designation. And there's only like, I think right now we only have 47 CRMC companies in the country. And so, if you get that level that where you have a CRMC that really, really tells your owners that, wow, this is a company that that really is just the top notch at the top. You know, a few percentage points of all those property management companies out there. I know, I'm thankful to say that New Heights Property Management is a certified residential management company. That's my company here and that makes a difference. We put that right a proudly on our website and people tell us, Hey, we called you first because you're only CRMC company in South Carolina. And so that does make a difference in marketing and advertising for your firm.

Bob Preston:                      17:55                     I bet. We're striving for that. We're headed in that direction, but you know it's going to take a couple of years. But I like the, yeah, I like the certifications because it does assure clients and even being able to tell people, Hey, I'm a CRMC and they, they kind of get what it is and I'm committed to the education and the standards that for and you know, here's the web link so you can understand what it is. I mean even that alone is, you know, very, very helpful to have. So yeah, you started talking about legislative influence and things like that. Where does NARPM have influences at local, state, national level? You know, I guess on ordinances and laws and I know you formed some lobbying groups as you may have mentioned, sounds like you have a committee that meets with HUD and I think there's even a pack or a political action committee of some sort. Can you tell us about that?

Eric Wetherington:         18:43                     Sure. NARPM national does have a political action committee where we raise money and then give support to national candidates. I'm trying to focus primarily people on committees or leadership positions and committees in Washington that impact housing. So, you know, regardless of their affiliation, we really look for folks who are favorable to housing, to landlords and tenants and, and making, you know, the laws easier and better for those who want to, you know, invest in housing as long-term investments and landlord interest in their properties. So that's a great, uh, tool that we've used to continue to help expand in our bums presence or, or viewership, shall we say, within the legislative community. You know, it's interesting, we've worked with HUD now for, and met with them on an annual basis now for probably five or six years. Off the top of my head, I don't exactly remember, but somewhere around there and every year that we go, that leadership goes to Washington and meets with representatives of HUD, we get farther along, and they really enjoy talking to us. They spend a lot of time with us, kind of surprisingly overall. And they, they really see NARPM as the expert in what's going on in the single-family property management space. And, and they're reaching out to us with questions about, you know, rules or policies. They're, they're leaning on us or looking to us to give information. So, we're really trying to foster and have successfully fostered a really good relationship with them. I think we're going to have deputy secretary or assistant secretary, Anna Maria from HUD with us at the broker owner conference in Hawaii. She was with us last and our last broker owner in Las Vegas and in her story is great too. You know how she is, I remember her story. Yeah. You know, in a very difficult situation and are in Texas near the Mexico border and, and first generation American. Really cool story. Yeah. Grew up in the projects there and then, you know, decided she wanted to dedicate her life to public service into, to specifically to housing. So, she's been a great friend of ours as well here at NARPM and we're looking forward to seeing her again. And in April,

Bob Preston:                      20:57                     Does Ben Carson ever drop in? Do you ever get access to him or is that kind of?

Eric Wetherington:         21:02                     Never have gotten to that level. I think Anna Maria is the highest level that we've, we've gotten to. But you know it's still good.

Bob Preston:                      21:12                     No, I'm just kind of teasing. I know Ben's a cabinet member pretty, but he's got other, he's, you know, he's working with the, with the administration. Hey, we're jumping around here a little bit, but I think it's a great episode and I want to make sure and touch on some of these things. So code of ethics, I mean I know that, okay, there's standards, there's education and to me, I mean one of the most important aspects of property management is your own personal code of ethics and a code of ethics that may be your organization might represent and you know, as a company our full transparency. So, tell us about the code of ethics for NARPM.

Eric Wetherington:         21:43                     So I agree with everything you said, Bob. And the code of ethics for NARPM is really just there to kind of give that guideline to our members as to how we're going to treat our customers, how we are going to treat our clients and how we're going to treat each other in the property management business. And so it's really the rails that helped, uh, make everybody understand, Hey, we've come together, we agree that this is how we're going to do business in a broad picture and we adhere to those, to those ethical standards as we go out there each and every day and practice as business a property management.

Bob Preston:                      22:15                     That's great. And I think as we both agree kind of very, very important, um, both locally and just, you know, professionally to be able to say that, Hey, yeah, I'm bound by this code of ethics. I mean, I'm sure you get this too. And South Carolina and we get these stories, people who are coming to us from another property management company that are unbelievable, you know, it's like, Whoa, that happened. Okay, well, yeah, there are some, you know, not so great property managers out there. And so, it's, I'm always proud of saying, Hey, we have a code of ethics and we published that in our own sort of company culture and our own vision right on our website. Hey, here's our code of ethics and our standards and the way we work. And you know, we strive to achieve that every single day. Right? I mean, that's kind of where we're coming from. But the NARPM stamp of approval on that is even better.

Eric Wetherington:         23:00                     Well, I couldn't agree more. I mean, I've had the dubious honor of serving as a court appointed receiver in several instances where other property management companies who were not in NARPM members got into trouble with their business practices and things that they were doing. And having to go into a company at the direction of the court and clean it up just leaves me, uh, you know, sick at some of the things I've seen and some of the challenges that owners or tenants have had to deal with when they're dealing with a property management company that just doesn't, doesn't have a code of ethics and doesn't have training. It doesn't have, you know, the standards that that NARPM members do. 

Bob Preston:                      23:36                     Wow, that must've been very eye opening.

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Bob Preston:                      24:43                     What about touching on the education again, who at NARPM establishes the curriculum? Like for people like me who are, who are achieving these certifications and going through these educational courses that are available.

Eric Wetherington:         24:54                     So we have committees that, that work on everything within our group and a professional development committee is the committee that works on the education and, and uh, the courses and, and whatnot. They have, um, we have a, a group of instructors of course that are certified to instructor to teach these courses that we have, and they have a lot of input into how the courses are doing and, and performing and whatnot. And wherefore. So, there's a good group of folks that work on that along with our national staff of course who uh, helps keep, keep everything moving on a regular basis. A good group of folks who are volunteers, who are property managers in their day job that really helped direct and define how the education courses come out.

Bob Preston:                      25:37                     Well the contents amazing. I mean I've taken several of them as I mentioned towards my certification and it's a really great organized, extremely well. So, congratulations to your team on that. There's another organization out there called the Institute of Real Estate Management. IREM I believe is the, you know, the kind of the acronym. How do you guys compare to IREM and what is their focus compared to NARPM are they the same, are they different? Is there, you know, different orientation? Can you help us understand that?

Eric Wetherington:         26:04                     Sure. And, and we do some things jointly with IREM. We have some relationships affiliations with them and some of our education sometimes and other things. But they're a great organization that they primarily focus on commercial and multifamily commercial type properties. Not so much on the single-family residential management that is the core of the NARPM membership portfolio.

Bob Preston:                      26:28                     Gotcha. Yeah, that's kind of what I, that was my impression, but I thought it's great to hear it kind of straight from you. Okay, good. So yeah, quick difference between those two organizations. Hey, so NARPM benefits not only you know, benefit our clients, but there are a lot of membership benefits to me as well. You know, of being a member. I know we've already touched on some of this and perhaps there's a parallel, but what perspectives do you have of some of the other benefits that stand out for an NARPM members? I mean you've touched on, we've touched on networking and the conferences, the local chapters. I mean, is there anything else that I'm missing?

Eric Wetherington:         27:02                     Well, one of the biggest things that people tell us that they like about their NARPM membership is being part of a listserv or part of the Facebook group or part of part of those networking opportunities that we have. Because you know, you can go on the listserv in the Facebook group and ask a question about what's going on in your business today and you can get answers from all over the country. You know, within a matter of minutes or a matter of hours, you're getting 10, 15, 20 different people, 30, 40 different people shining in about how they solve that problem or how they've dealt with that problem. Or a lot of times, you know, Hey, this is what we've done here. Let me give you my lease addendum that we use to address that situation. Or Hey here, this is how we did this. Here's our pet application. So, use this as you're trying to decide how you're going to do your pet application process. And it's just that spirit of sharing and sharing any idea and anything with another NARPM member that is just really truly amazing and a unique to NARPM. I've been involved in a lot of different trade associations throughout my years and the NARPM community is a special, unique community and it's just, it's amazing how you can just use these resources in these tools and connect with anybody you know, across the street or around the country and they're so happy and willing to share and help you be successful in your business. So that's a big thing that we hear about vendor relationships. We have a lot of, some of our vendor affinity programs with Home Depot or with Lowe's or with other vendors that provide discounts or other advantages to the NARPM membership when they're working with particular vendors and their business. Those benefits can drive thousands of dollars in value each year back to the NARPM member. So, knowing what those vendor affinity partners are and those vendor relationships can be and how they can benefit you. That's another great thing. Our website is a great resource and a great tool. And we talked about the education, we talked about the training, we talked about the conventions and the conferences. So, you know, those are, those are the things that really, you know, makeup a big portion of that value proposition to our NARPM membership.

Bob Preston:                      29:06                     Wow. That was a fabulous summary. I couldn't agree more about the NARPM membership being a special group of people. You know, like the lunchtime at the convention, sitting down with a group of strangers. And before, you know, we're comparing notes and talking about specific topics, exchanging cards for idea sharing. And uh, you're right, the, the group is overall extremely welcoming for sharing and brainstorming and looking at new ideas.

Eric Wetherington:         29:31                     Bob, one person said it best, they said they were talking to me and they said, you know what, I could be on a road trip and my car anywhere in the United States and I could break and I could pull up my phone and there would be somebody from NARPM in my phone in that area that I could call that would come and help me. And it's, it's true. And it's actually happened before where, I mean I've actually had people tell me stories where, Hey, you know what, I got a phone call from my parents. They were on the side of the road stranded. I picked up my phone. I called one of my NARPM friends. They dropped what they were doing, drove out to the highway, picked up my parents, took them to you know, this and that. I mean, that is the type of community that NARPM melds.

Bob Preston:                      30:15                     That's a really cool story. Okay, well next time I'm cruising through your area, I might want to do some couch surfing overnight. No, I'm kidding.

Eric Wetherington:         30:23                     There's actually people I know I could name, I won't name them that actually have what they call NARPM suites at their house.

Bob Preston:                      30:29                     Oh my God. That's hilarious. Yeah. I'll have to get.

Eric Wetherington:         30:33                     The guest suite set up for their NARPM friends to come and visit.

Bob Preston:                      30:37                     That is so great. Hey, so you don't need to be a NARPM president or president of the lacked or past president to contribute in leadership either. There's tons of different opportunities for folks like me to participate. Right. I mean quick throw out some stuff. What I know that there's the time.

Eric Wetherington:         30:54                     Every one of the local chapters has lots and lots of opportunities to contribute to participate. You can serve on a committee locally in your chapter. You can serve as an officer on the chapter board and you can be involved in a national committee, you know the national committees. A lot of the involvement on the national committees is done via conference call or zoom meetings and things like that and so you know, it really is a good opportunity and is easy for people to get involved and be involved in NARPM and give back and I tell you the people that you meet, the things that you learn when you do that more than pay for the time and energy and effort that you put into serving.

Bob Preston:                      31:31                     I got to tell you, I had the pleasure of being a speaker at the national convention here back in, I guess it was October, I had a session and I had proposed, I think I, gosh, I guess about April of 2019 this topic that actually had nothing to do with property management. I used to do these seminars on storytelling and using that to engage kind of an emotional connection with new clients and how that helps to build relationships and how it could be used in real estate and property management. And to my surprise, it was accepted, and it was so much fun. It took me a little while to prepare, but as you mentioned, I had so many people come up after the session saying, God, that was great. So, refreshing. And again, another way of kind of networking and sharing and felt this just sort of energy buzz within the classroom. It was so much fun, and I couldn't believe how many people turned out. I'm thinking, Oh, we're going to have maybe, you know, 10, 20 people. There were, I don't know how many, how many people those suites hold that it was completely packed, you know, one of those breakout sessions. It was really fun. Hey, so in the interest of time, we need to wrap up today's episode. So, any last remaining or words of wisdom to our listeners about NARPM?

Eric Wetherington:         32:43                     Well, if you're not a NARPM member already and you're in the property management business, you need to become a NARPM member. The investment is an annual investment. It makes a world of sense. You will get way more in value than you would ever pay an annual basis. I tell ya, you know, one of the main reasons why I got involved in leadership as a national level was just because I felt like I had to give back. I had to give back to this great organization and the people that were so helpful to me when I was starting our property management company here in the Charleston market, and they embraced me as a newbie. I mean, you know, the first time I met somebody they said, Hey, why don't you come over to my office and was in Atlanta, Georgia, which is a four-hour drive away. But they said, come on over and we'll sit down and talk to you. You ask me any question you want and you know people like this community, there's more within the NARPM community that you can learn that will help you in your business than you can ever imagine. Join our today. That's the thing I would say to those who are in property management. If you're listening to Bob's podcast and you are an investor in real estate and you could be an investor in California, you might be an investor in, in the central part of the United States, in the Midwest or on the East coast or whatever, and you don't want to deal with the hassles of managing the rental properties yourself or maybe you own those rental properties in an IRA and by IRS guidelines, you can't manage those properties. You need to have a third-party manager in place. Really, really think long and hard about making sure that the property manager you hire is a NARPM member because then at least you know that you've got someone who's committed to the industry, committed to running a great business, committed to a code of ethics like we talked about and is interested in providing a good outcome for you and your investment rental property. So that's what I would say to wrap up.

Bob Preston:                      34:31                     That's, that's really cool. And if someone wanted to learn more about NARPM or contact the organization, how would they go about doing that?

Eric Wetherington:         34:39            is the easiest place to find more about NARPM on the internet. And of course, you can find us on Facebook and, and various other social media things, which I'm not too much into that social media stuff. So, um, but you can, you can look for NARPM on Facebook and, and other places as well but is our website. Lots of great tools and resources there for people looking to learn more about NARPM.

Bob Preston:                      35:04                     That's great. I'll post that link in our episode notes too so people can just click right through. So, all right, Eric, thank you so much. That was a really good episode, full of lots of great information. I appreciate you sharing so much and I'm sure listeners will appreciate the time you took today to join and be with us. And as we wrap up today, I'd like to make another quick plug to our listeners to click on subscribe, give us a like if you will, and please pay it forward with a positive review to help encourage more great guests like Eric to come onto our show. And that concludes today's episode. Thank you for joining the Property Management Brainstorm show. Until next time, we will be in the field working hard for our clients to maximize their property value and rental income and maintain top tenant relationships. And we will catch you next time.

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